The Murder of Goldia Massey | Part 3 of 7

Delve into the perplexing and chilling journey through the Goldia Massey murder case in our latest podcast episode. The case, which remains shrouded in mystery, took a sinister turn when a suspiciously removed carpet pointed towards hidden tales and unspoken secrets.

The intrigue of this case deepens as we navigate the underbelly of Bourbon County, following the arrest of Goldia’s son, Zach Massey, and the mysterious statements from his girlfriend, Samantha Smiley. As the plot thickens, countless twists and turns paint a picture of suspense, leaving listeners on the edge of their seats.

In this episode, we also explore the pivotal role of search warrants in solving criminal cases and the influence of cell phones in tracking a person’s movement. The intricate workings of cell tower activity and how it can affect tracking capabilities adds another layer of complexity to this convoluted case. This exploration provides a broader perspective on the tools and techniques employed in modern crime investigation.

One of the most chilling developments in this case was the discovery of a human arm in Lockport, Kentucky, far from the initial crime scene. This gruesome find introduced another dimension to the mystery and prompted speculation about Zach Massey’s arrest and Samantha Smiley’s sudden relocation. Such unforeseen developments add to the enthralling potpourri of uncertainty and obsession that characterizes this case.

In the podcast, we also discussed how supporting our endeavors could bring justice for victims of such horrific crimes. From our official merchandise store to following us on social media and subscribing to the podcast, we outline the numerous ways listeners can ensure they don’t miss a single episode.

The Goldia Massey murder case is a testament to the chilling reality of unsolved crimes and the painstaking process of piecing together disparate clues. As we delve deeper into this haunting story, we strive to shed light on the grim realities behind such crimes and bring justice for the victims. Join us as we continue to unravel the labyrinth of the Goldia Massey murder case.

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Watch this and other cases on our YouTube Channel at https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMurderPolicePodcast. Become a subscriber today!

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Episode Transcript

Steve McCownGuest00:01

But I’m very much you know about water and the river and all that. So we get a call excuse me, it’s called and a human arm washes up in Lockport, kentucky, in Henry County, at lock number two.

Wendy LyonsHost00:15

Warning. The podcast you’re about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police podcast the murder of Goldie Massey, part three.

Steve McCownGuest00:52

Why did you say that? I was like there’s no carpet in that front room of that apartment.

Wendy LyonsHost00:58

The apartment, the carpet has been removed from the front room so you can see enough through that sliver. We could.

Steve McCownGuest01:04

I could see the entire living room.

Chris SchoonoverGuest01:05

It wasn’t a sliver he held like an arm’s length. Yeah, I could see.

Steve McCownGuest01:08

I could. I mean he was standing in the doorway, but he couldn’t. He couldn’t obscure my view where I could see all the way in, and the carpet was gone. It was down the concrete.

David LyonsHost01:17

Which for little listeners that didn’t take civics or take it seriously, that’s a legal observation because you’re legally where you’re supposed to be.

Steve McCownGuest01:24

I was not in his apartment. I was outside of his apartment looking into it.

David LyonsHost01:27

And you’re a place you’re legally entitled to be your field of vision. Everything carries you.

Chris SchoonoverGuest01:32

You should be a detective.

David LyonsHost01:33

That’s a pretty good clue.

Steve McCownGuest01:34

Exactly, and looking back, obviously, hans, that’s 2020, but in that moment it was more of a man. I can’t believe that there’s no carpet. I mean we were kind of joking about it, but now I mean that was huge. You know it was. It was huge just to the fact of investigating further. Investigating further, knowing what we knew, seeing what we saw, that was it. Was it just it all added up?

Wendy LyonsHost02:07

So where did you leave it with him?

Steve McCownGuest02:08

Just thank you for your time We’ll get back to you if we need something. Yep, thank you very much.

Chris SchoonoverGuest02:13

Have a great day, right, and as Dave always I mean I knew this and as Dave and I always practice when we’re working together is it’s better to leave on great terms, because you’re going to have to come back eventually. Oh, yeah, yeah.

David LyonsHost02:26

And again, you know one thing I picked up on. Two is that when you talked about the arm, he offered the leg, that’s it. You can’t overlook that. He offered additional and of course he sounds like he’s like I said, he’s building qualifiers and everything. Anyway, he’s going to over talk, which is why that’s why you never want to back that down. So God bless him.

Chris SchoonoverGuest02:43

So that’s all we have about Massey at that point. Now, of course, I want your listeners to remember and if they’ve listened to your obviously your podcast several times they know in Lexington a homicide detective just doesn’t have one case. So in that time we’re still working several cases. Now it’s Don Dunn who is a homicide detective at that time. She’s up next for the homicide, so I take her on my next interview.

Steve McCownGuest03:07

Yeah, in the meantime I’d caught a homicide so I was no longer working with him, Right.

Chris SchoonoverGuest03:11

So October 15, just two days later after he caught his homicide, I tell her that I’m looking at her son had told me that she wanted to borrow some money from her uncle. So I locate her uncle, don Dunn, and I go and interview him and he gives us a pretty good description of family dynamics.

Steve McCownGuest03:36

And I think he actually gave a pretty good timeline too.

Chris SchoonoverGuest03:39

He did. The night that she went missing. She had texted him to borrow some money because he knew she was in financial trouble and he said I have $50 or $100 for you. That’s all I have right now, but if it’ll help you, stop by on your way to Rose and Jim’s and I’ll lend it to you. And he said that she showed up, paris was with her and then that was the last time he had seen her. But he wanted to let us know that her son, zach, has a bad drug habit and that they argue often terrible, and but if she was in any trouble whatsoever she would call him and if he hasn’t heard from her, she may be on the run due to the money issue. So that didn’t help us at all. It actually opened up more doors.

Steve McCownGuest04:33

Right, this is what I did. I mean it really. It gave us now Zach is a suspect. It gave us, oh, goldie’s on the run because he owes money, and now we got the guy that were that supposedly was the last one to see your pair of Charles. So we’re, we’re, we’re kind of spinning wheels at this point.

David LyonsHost04:48

No shortage of rabbit holes. Yeah, right, yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest04:51

Right. So the next time I get to work on it. Three days later, on October 18th, don has caught her homicide. So now it’s Franz Wolff’s turn. So I take Franz, yeah, yes, franz. And I find out that Zach Massey has been arrested in Bourbon County for narcotics. So all the information we’re getting is true that he has a drug issue. And we go and interview Zach Massey in the jail and I will say this Franz did, he was amazing at this interview. I don’t want to say good cop, bad cop, because I know everybody thinks that Franz would be the bad cop automatically if anybody knew Franz. But he went in there with an open mind and asked Zach to go over everything, step by step, of what he told the police the telephone calls, his girlfriend’s the night that his wife went missing, his girlfriend’s patterns, because we found out in that interview that she actually works at Walmart. She was supposed to take Zach’s mother to Walmart and get picked up by Charles, paris, charles, yeah, to back up to clarify.

Steve McCownGuest06:06

So Zach had a girlfriend named Samantha Smiley. They were living together. Samantha was working at the Walmart in Georgetown and we had found out they had found out that Samantha had given Goldie a ride to Georgetown to meet, to meet Paris. So that’s kind of how that came through and that interview and when Franz and Chris talked to him while he was in custody, so they got a lot of clarification on that and especially knowing that we knew that she had been, she had been taken somewhere by another person that was big and creating, and you know as well as I do and I’m sure that over this thing timelines are essential and knowing where people are, you know, not just working backwards but working from the point where you can get a good starting point forward to where you’ve last seen that person and now you have another person to to we have more people to talk to to verify those timelines and story.

07:06

Right, well, and we all know what. When someone says Walmart, that’s a gold mine for us, because what’s at Walmart?

David LyonsHost07:12

They have cameras, yeah.

Steve McCownGuest07:13

So yeah, so I mean it, that when we hear those terms and in places where we know they’re in public, that have cameras, that just for us that is makes it that much easier, because then we can really we can confirm what people are telling us, so right.

Chris SchoonoverGuest07:29

During that interview with Franz, we find out that Zach has given all of his, all of Goldie’s property to her sister, including her computer, all her clothes, everything that was in his apartment, because, remember, goldie was evicted from her apartment, she moved in with Zach and his girlfriend, samantha Smiley, in Synthiana, in Synthiana.

Steve McCownGuest07:51

And that’s a key, because remember Synthiana, because we’ll get into that in a minute and it’s pivotal.

Chris SchoonoverGuest07:57

And remember, yeah, paris said I picked her up and says Synthiana. So now, who are you believing, right? So now I’m losing hair and I don’t have a lot to lose, yeah very careful yeah, rogaine Right.

Steve McCownGuest08:09

I will say this Got a nice cut for tonight too.

David LyonsHost08:11

He did, yeah, I mean, he shaped up Both.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:14

That’s all I wanted. Yeah, it took five minutes. I paid 20 bucks. Go pressure tooth these guys. So, of course, three days later we get to talk to Goldie Massey’s sister, cheryl Cheryl, cheryl Taylor, her sailor, sailor, yes. And you don’t spell Cheryl by Cheryl. It’s not Cheryl, it’s.

Steve McCownGuest08:39

Cheryl.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:39

It’s like LRL.

Wendy LyonsHost08:41

Oh.

Steve McCownGuest08:42

What a sweetheart. Sweetheart, yeah, I can’t Absolute sweetheart Like Cheryl Lee.

Wendy LyonsHost08:45

She just goes by, cheryl.

Steve McCownGuest08:46

Cheryl yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:47

Sweetheart.

Steve McCownGuest08:53

She provides us with all of her clothes, the box she is. Yeah, a lot of clothes.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:57

But here’s one thing, right. So we’re talking October, right, and there’s few nights, if we all. Even in Kentucky, a few nights are going down to 40 degrees. Sure, Absolutely. And she provides us with a computer. So Steve and I go through the box of stuff and discover her winter clothes are in there, Her coat, Right, yeah, her coat and the computer. Really, there was nothing of significance on the computer. Cheryl is really concerned. Steve and I, You’re not going out at 40 degrees without a coat, or at least sweatshirts on True. And in the meantime we’re still checking the video from Walmart. Right, there’s a process that everybody has to go through, even if it’s Walmart that you have to obtain the video from. And once we do, we find that Samantha, when we interviewed her, said yes, I drove her to Walmart because she wanted to meet Paris at Walmart and he was going to take her into Fayette County.

10:01

And, sure enough, she was waiting outside of the Walmart and you see a vehicle come and pick her up A van Right, not a white wall panel, serial killer van, but a van a copriner’s van, I would say maintenance guy’s van picks her up and you see them pull out and go towards Fayette County.

David LyonsHost10:18

So you anchor the timeline and you get an anti-Samanic information and you validate the story.

Steve McCownGuest10:22

Yeah, correct, we validated Zach’s story.

Chris SchoonoverGuest10:25

Right, zach’s story Ain’t Samantha’s story.

Wendy LyonsHost10:28

Yes.

Chris SchoonoverGuest10:31

Um, so after we interview uh Zach on the 20th, on the 21st of every next day I would say this is between the timeline between all the interviews that we’ve done we have enough. First search warrant for Golden Massie’s phone and um Paris’s phone. We can do exigent circumstances legally on those two phones. We can’t go with Zach’s phone because we don’t have enough to say he was the last person to see her right and you need that for a search warrant. So we did do a search warrant on those phone records.

Wendy LyonsHost11:09

Where was Goldie’s Did? Oh, you didn’t see. You just did it on her record. You didn’t physically ever find her phone, or did you find her phone we?

Chris SchoonoverGuest11:16

don’t know where Goldie is at this point. Right, goldie might be a unicorn at this point. No phone, anything. No phone in the box of which or post.

Steve McCownGuest11:25

But what we did have, what was most important that really got us to that search warrant, was Paris, charles and Goldie Massie in a van at Walmart in Georgetown at this time, and that was shortly before um he supposedly took her to her To range from correct. So that was the basis of the exigency of getting that search warrant for cell records.

David LyonsHost11:48

So you felt like there was a clear contradiction with his statement, absolutely.

Chris SchoonoverGuest11:52

Okay, yeah, that’s the point for a judge.

David LyonsHost11:55

Yeah, you’d have to have a yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest11:57

And we don’t know if she’s still alive. Is he keeping her in his dungeon at his house because he wouldn’t let us in? Right, and so it’s. It’s what a common person would believe is how you get those search warrants right. So that, and that’s what it showed.

Steve McCownGuest12:13

And with and to, and also to go along with that with an exigency. We’re not getting like historical data and things that we’re not getting call history to. We’re just asking phone. We’re just where’s the phone at? Um, that’s all that. We’re just asking for locations of that phone in a certain timeframe. So we’re not saying, hey, who did she call, who did he call, we’re just asking where was the phone between this time and that time?

12:37

Yeah, it’s like you can’t ask for general dumps, right, we’re not, we’re not getting specific on the search warrant, but we’re saying, hey, something’s going on here. Can you tell us where these phones are?

Wendy LyonsHost12:47

What did that show those results of that search.

Chris SchoonoverGuest12:49

Well, and what I want your listeners to realize is, when you get that search warrant, you’re going to get that type of search warrant. It gives you a triangular.

Steve McCownGuest12:57

It doesn’t pinpoint it, it does not pinpoint it so every, every, every every cell phone tower has what’s called an azimuth or a sector that it hits off of. Every tower has three sections to it, so it’ll give a directionality of where the call is coming in from. So like if you, if you, think of a piece of pie and it’s cut into three sections. So if a phone call is made from this area it will come in this way or dialed out It’ll go that way. Or if it’s coming from the south, the west, so a cell phone tower is cut into three different sections or azimuths and that’s how those calls, you can sort of see directionality on it. It’s not foolproof, because sometimes they get bumped to other cell towers and things that nature, but for the most part in general that’s kind of how they work.

Chris SchoonoverGuest13:41

A good example of that is real bird. That happened just this past weekend. There are so many individuals hitting off a one tower.

Steve McCownGuest13:50

They probably got around to Cincinnati.

Chris SchoonoverGuest13:53

And then you, so that would really have a damper on the investigation.

Steve McCownGuest13:58

It’s determined upon how busy the tower is, how busy that sector is. It still may hit off the same tower but a different section, or it may get bumped to a different tower. But that’s explainable too With cell phone experts. I mean, we we just know the basics of it on how to sort of interpret those cell phone records. But it in general you can. You can track a person by their cell phone based upon those cell towers.

Chris SchoonoverGuest14:23

Right. So relatively quickly the results come back and it shows that Goldie Massie’s phone ceased working early morning of September 21st. More importantly, now we have all our listeners thinking that Paris Charles has done this because, more importantly, his phone was in the same exact location as her phone, but his phone remained working after the same hours on. September 21st, right, but who do we still have in the picture? We have the people that she embezzled money. We have her son, who’s a drug addict, who she actually got addicted to drugs.

Steve McCownGuest15:05

And we also had the fact that she could just turn her phone off and take off.

Chris SchoonoverGuest15:08

Right, because she doesn’t. It’s always there.

Steve McCownGuest15:10

Right.

Wendy LyonsHost15:12

And she has the people she owes the money to Exactly.

Steve McCownGuest15:14

So everything’s still on the table. We get these cell phones, but is it that? Is it another little tick mark? Maybe We’ll see.

David LyonsHost15:22

Yeah, so you’re starting to understand the phones are together.

Steve McCownGuest15:24

You know they’re traveling the same path. We know they left together from the Walmart right. We saw them. We saw him pick her up at Walmart. They left together. We’re seeing that travel from Georgetown to Rosengyms, around New Circle, and then Goldie’s phone goes off but his stays on.

David LyonsHost15:40

Yeah, you’re working towards circumstantial stuff.

Steve McCownGuest15:43

Sure Right, a good plan, but everything’s still on the board.

Chris SchoonoverGuest15:46

Oh, yeah, right. And to make things worse, once Zach Massie gets arrested, samantha Smiley gets moved out of government housing. So we just hear that late. So we also, during the investigations, you have to have more than just word of mouth. So if somebody moves out, what’s the best determination of if they can tell there was issues? And I’ll jump ahead and I’ll let the listeners think about this and I’ll tell you what Steve and I did to determine whether Zach really had anything. Zach and Samantha had anything to do with this While he was in jail. We just followed up on certain things and I’ll let the listeners think about what they would do to find that answer. Yeah, please. So in the meantime, we have a huge thing happen on October 24th. I’ll let Steve explain that. Did you receive the call or did I?

Steve McCownGuest16:40

I think you did, but I mean I remember it.

Chris SchoonoverGuest16:42

So these are normal calls for me.

Steve McCownGuest16:44

So what you have to understand is I live on the river in Fayette County right, so I’m like a river rat.

David LyonsHost16:49

In a van by the river.

Steve McCownGuest16:51

I have poverty on the river but I’m not that guy, but I’m very much, you know, about water and the river and all that. So we get a call. Excuse me, it’s called a human arm washes up in Lockport, kentucky, in Henry County, at lock number two. So how far that just roughly I think by river and again maybe in the river guy.

Chris SchoonoverGuest17:13

This is exactly what he told me the night.

Steve McCownGuest17:16

we got that call, I think by the river 119 miles, and what I did as I went and I will tell you. I went back because USGS has a site where you can go back in years and see flood. You can see how the river runs right, so you can tell when it was flooded and when it was at flood stage and when it was so it was. I did that, but yeah, that that arm washed up 119 miles down by river, not as a crow flies, but by river, 119 miles from the bridge at Clay’s Ferry.

Wendy LyonsHost17:48

Wow so like a fisherman finds it or something.

David LyonsHost17:50

Yes, yes, did it have to do any locks or dams or anything.

Steve McCownGuest17:53

It was found below the lock there in Lockport at lock number two.

Chris SchoonoverGuest17:58

You can’t leave it alone. It’s still in your blood, isn’t it? Oh yeah, so so they. So so they find an arm right.

Steve McCownGuest18:03

I mean, they don’t know anything about anything. Persons in Lexington. I mean it’s just a human, it’s just an arm.

David LyonsHost18:09

Well, let’s take it a step further, since we’re talking about river stuff and water and body parts. That’s not uncommon. No, and you know, I grew up in Louisville on the Ohio River, and one of the most common things is finding a shoe on a beach with foot bones still in the tow rations Sure.

18:24

And that, if it, maybe somebody with a news will do a story on that one day and scare everybody. But there are people falling off boats and jumping off bridges and drowning all the time that we never find so well as we come out to Kentucky River. Let’s talk about before I retired the cars that we pulled out and found those human remains from probably back, I guess, in the 70s, and it was some, some bones in a woman’s stocking and slinging from the river In a knit stocking or whatever.

Steve McCownGuest18:50

Yeah, down there.

David LyonsHost18:52

And I remember Franz was joking about not having anything to do and I said if we pull something out of this river, it’s yours.

Chris SchoonoverGuest18:57

Yeah, but then I was joking too and I got a call.

David LyonsHost19:00

But so, yeah, going back to it is yeah, it is important to go by the river miles because that’s the distance traveled. If you find that out, and then again, human remains washing up or being found in bodies of water not that unusual at all. If you’d stuck with fishing wildlife, you’d have dealt with that a lot there you go, yeah.

Steve McCownGuest19:20

So we got a left arm. It was severed the shoulder. No from about the bicep middle of the bicep down.

Chris SchoonoverGuest19:29

Can I correct some? I think what it was is an email went out and we, you and I, talked about the email. Should we make a call? Yes, Do you remember that it’s coming back to me now? I didn’t. I haven’t done a lot of drugs at all yeah. It only takes that one One time.

Steve McCownGuest19:44

So it wasn’t like they found this arm and they’re like, oh, my gosh Lexington, lexington’s got a missing persons. You know what I mean. That kind of thing we need to call them because they haven’t, I mean they they found an arm. We knew nothing of it but and.

Chris SchoonoverGuest19:58

I think we saw the link. You know how the link goes out to anybody with a missing persons through.

Steve McCownGuest20:04

NCIC yeah.

David LyonsHost20:04

Let’s talk about that for a minute. Ncic, national Crime Information Center, is when you find a person or parts of a person. How do we do that? Because this is where that magic happens, yeah.

Steve McCownGuest20:17

If you enter it into NCIC and people that have missing persons that may be correlated to that, then it will come to that agency. And luckily it did for us when we got a teletype that we responded to yeah, that Henry County, down there I mean, found a human arm.

David LyonsHost20:33

Again for people who have people and loved ones that are still missing, take a little comfort and the idea that when you, when you’re taken, you get a sign of missing person report, you will get all of those NCIC transactions and you’ll follow up on them. You’ll look and see what the likelihood is. But it was kind of a regular thing, maybe a couple of times a week sometimes or a couple of times a month, to get an NCIC transaction where they said we have your missing person, we have this body part that we believe could possibly it’s a way out there, but it’s done on the. They’re going to err on the side of caution on going way out there than missing it. I like letting people know that those things exist.

Chris SchoonoverGuest21:09

Can I add to this statement? The important thing is there’s also CODIS. So if you have a loved one missing, go ahead and let those detectives that are investigating your loved one death or missing person let them swab. You agree with the swab. Let them put your swab into CODIS so they can match those body parts that are located at certain locations. It would shorten the process tremendously and also assist you in knowing whether or not that your family member that was located, because we all watch the news, we all hear body found at Lake Cumberland, body found in the woods in Laurel County. It will just give you a piece of I can’t say a piece of mind, but at least hope, or no hope, that they’ve looked at your loved one.

Steve McCownGuest21:54

I think what it does? It gives you a hand up, it gives you a little bit of a hand up.

David LyonsHost21:57

Which is the whole game is hands up. Right, exactly, the whole game is hands up. You want to be in?

Steve McCownGuest22:00

front of it. I think that’s the most important one.

David LyonsHost22:03

We’re not going to rabbit hole this, but we’ve done two episodes on forensic genealogy where there’s the next force multiplier, and I’m just going to tell people go back and listen to the interview with Jane DNA DOE project with Karen. Zander, and then Sergeant Catalina Catalina from California when they identified somebody. I’m not going to go through the rabbit hole right now, but it’s fascinating stuff that’s in the works right now. Coming back to the point, swab Is my asher for an exemplar or for a sample Give it.

Chris SchoonoverGuest22:33

I’ve had loved ones. Did not agree to let me swab them in case they’re missing. Their loved one was found. I absolutely have.

David LyonsHost22:42

They were probably serial killers 20 years ago.

Steve McCownGuest22:45

And I’ll be honest with you, not to plug Dr Craig, but what she started with Namus down in North.

Chris SchoonoverGuest22:50

Texas Namus, Namus, Namus.

Steve McCownGuest22:52

That’s huge and she really got a good thing started down there Not only missing people, but body parts as part of that. So she really got a good thing started down there, 100%.

David LyonsHost23:03

Yeah.

Wendy LyonsHost23:04

Well, did you? When you all read that there was an arm, did you suspicion that it could be golden? No, not at all. Or you’re just thinking, because it’s so frequent you get this type of thing.

Chris SchoonoverGuest23:16

I mean, this is what this is an we love this job we’re going to. It’s not that we live at the office and it came in in the evening, it’s like before we went home. It’s something you should do If you really love this. Be diligent, just be diligent, right, and so you should follow up, and then you can go home and sleep easy that you didn’t miss something.

Steve McCownGuest23:35

But it was. This isn’t something that like didn’t happen all the time. You know what I mean. We we would get NCISI hits on missing people all the time. So did we think anything of it? Not really.

Wendy LyonsHost23:49

Because you can, because it was so frequent, yeah.

Steve McCownGuest23:51

Not really, but we had it.

Wendy LyonsHost23:54

So what happens.

Steve McCownGuest23:55

But there is that, like I talked about, there’s a, there’s another tick. You know what I mean. We’re, we’re starting to add a few things up here and those, those ticks are going to be numbers and two and two is going to equal four at some point. You know what I mean. So we’re, we’re just trying to, we’re trying to get those foundation blocks built for us.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:12

So the arm goes to the Louisville State Medical Examiner’s office and I make a call the next day, the following day. Hey, can you get prints off of that, off of the arm, because obviously her hand, the hand, was still attached to the arm. Very depressing news, they kept telling me they, or unsuccessful it was in too bad of condition to be able to be able to print and all that.

David LyonsHost24:35

They didn’t try hydrating and and well, they did not.

Steve McCownGuest24:40

We’ll, we’ll, we’ll get there. Yeah, so we were just. Chris, was just kind of told ads in too bad of shape can’t do anything with it, it’s just not. You know what I mean.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:48

So we started researching it because Steve said, no, I think there’s new, and back in the day, there’s no stuff. Right, right, I mean, it’s just the corner and I and I’d seen this.

Steve McCownGuest24:58

I’d seen him rehydrate fingers, before you know, injecting them with water, but Saline. But what you have to understand is this this arm had been in water the whole time.

David LyonsHost25:06

Right.

Steve McCownGuest25:07

So it was. If you’ve ever seen like when you had get dishpan hands, it’s nothing Kind of. Yeah, so you know, they said it. We just you know it’s not good enough. So we were like, okay, we’ll take you at your word.

Chris SchoonoverGuest25:20

Yeah, but something interesting that we did find out about where it was severed was hey, you know there’s more to the story, so go download the next episode.

David LyonsHost25:32

Like the true crime fan that you are, the murder police podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims, so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons. The murder police podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android podcast platform, as well as at murder police podcastcom, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official murder police podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of murder police podcasts swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the murder police podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars in a written review on Apple podcast or wherever you download your podcasts. Make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends. Lock it down Judy!

Chris SchoonoverGuest