The Murder of Goldia Massey | Part 7 of 7

The last of the mini-series is here.

The world of true crime is often riddled with intricacies and complexities, each one adding a layer to the already tangled web of investigations. In the latest episode of our podcast, we delve deep into the gruesome cases of Goldia Massey and Paris Charles, demonstrating the immense power of forensic science and the importance of rapport in interrogations.

The murder of Goldia Massey is a testament to the importance of building rapport with suspects. In a high-pressure situation, it is critical to maintain dignity and respect to avoid unnecessary escalations. The investigators in this case were able to confront the suspect with a lab report showcasing a one in 20 quintillion chance that the DNA at the crime scene did not belong to him. This damning piece of evidence was impossible to dispute, resulting in the suspect’s eventual downfall.

However, what truly stood out in the case was the overlooked evidence. Exhausted from his attempt to clean up the crime scene, the suspect failed to notice the incriminating blood droplets on the back jam of his bedroom door. This overlooked piece of evidence proved pivotal in his conviction, highlighting the significance of attention to detail in crime scene investigations.

In the Paris Charles case, the spotlight shifts to the forensic expertise of Dr. Donnie Steadman at the body farm of the University of Tennessee. The chilling dismemberment mechanism identified with a reciprocating saw raised many challenges in linking the murder weapon back to Charles. However, despite the hurdles, the truth was eventually unveiled.

The case emphasized the urgent need for prompt reporting of missing persons and the importance of providing complete information to detectives. Often, the reluctance to report a missing person or the hesitation to provide full transparency can make or break a case. Furthermore, the case reiterated the importance of honoring the victims and their families by ensuring their names never fade away.

Both cases shed light on the complexities of murder investigations and the crucial role of forensic science. They also underscored the importance of dignity and rapport in interrogations, making it an intriguing episode for true crime enthusiasts and budding detectives alike.

The world of forensic investigations is filled with intricacies and nuances that can often make or break a case. With careful observation, meticulous attention to detail, and a strong sense of rapport and respect, even the most complex of cases can be solved, honoring the victims and ensuring justice is served.

Transcript

Steve McCowenGuest00:01

I was like Paris. I want you to see this, to let you know. I’m not kidding, I’m not making this up, I’m not trying to pull one over on you. Here it is. Here’s the lab report One in 20 quintillion, 80 zeros. He’s like. I don’t believe that.

Wendy LyonsHost00:21

Warning. The podcast you’re about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. The description is advised. Welcome to the murder police podcast. The murder of Goldie Massey, part seven.

Chris SchoonoverGuest00:55

And Steve, just let him know.

David LyonsHost00:58

Think back how many times all of us and other people that have done this will agree we put murders in the front seat, or we took murders down and something didn’t have a cage, or we went into their home and had that conversation. And what I’m getting at is that TV. Again, I compare things that Hollywood and TV. So much on the violence and everything, but how many murders we dealt with. It just went along with the program and I hope people don’t misinterpret this. But we didn’t saddle up the RU or SWAT and it wasn’t because we had tombstone courage. But knowing who they are is that’s not where the fight’s gonna be.

Wendy LyonsHost01:42

Now that doesn’t mean it?

David LyonsHost01:43

for all of them, people who are barricaded in. Necessarily. That’s a whole different ball of wax, but always thought of again at one time one thing to protect that non-custodial interview thing how is a casual ride almost like an Uber ride to police departments? It would be funny when you talk about that casualness of it. To me it was like that. It was like most of the time it wasn’t really amped up or super excited.

Chris SchoonoverGuest02:09

It was like okay, we’re going and they would go and we knew that we possibly could have a murder there. Yes, exactly yeah.

David LyonsHost02:17

But maybe it comes down to that rapport again. Like you’re getting back with Steve.

Steve McCowenGuest02:20

Yeah.

David LyonsHost02:21

Is that the relationship you build is one of those things that keeps you safe and keeps everything from escalating into a higher degree.

Chris SchoonoverGuest02:27

Yeah, you get, and not having lights and sirens, and have his neighbors know, right, yes, you got to respect the guy, there we go, perfect yeah. It’s just, it’s human nature, not if you disrespect me, I’m going to disrespect you, not so much respect, but I think a little bit of dignity we were given in dignity you know what I mean.

Steve McCowenGuest02:46

We weren’t. We weren’t trying to out him in front of everybody, we were just we were doing what we had to do in a most discreet manner that we could possibly do it. Yeah, and I think I think that was his appreciation and probably why he really kind of went along with everything is we weren’t, we didn’t come in there with guns blazing and and you know, our PA is going and calling him out.

David LyonsHost03:11

You stay off that lizard brain.

Steve McCowenGuest03:13

You stay off that amygdala.

David LyonsHost03:14

We didn’t need media there.

Chris SchoonoverGuest03:16

No, absolutely not Like a lot of police departments, do not they? They don’t need the radio, they don’t need the media there. Right, they’re going to. They’re going to get a lot more sugar.

David LyonsHost03:25

That’s. That’s what this is about.

Wendy LyonsHost03:27

So he didn’t try to dispute it and say you’re wrong. I did not do this.

Steve McCowenGuest03:31

Oh 100%. He did, oh, he did, oh 100%.

Chris SchoonoverGuest03:33

But he knew when we came back the second time. He was so positive when we came back the second time Let me back up when we dropped him off, he knew if he saw us the second time, both of us together, he was going to jail. He was going to jail.

Wendy LyonsHost03:50

And that’s what I mean. When you came back that second time, he was not disputing it.

Steve McCowenGuest03:54

Still strong, no never, never did it.

Wendy LyonsHost03:56

Didn’t do it. He still was seeing you, you all are crazy.

Steve McCowenGuest03:58

I don’t know where you’re coming from.

Wendy LyonsHost04:00

But I showed him the lab reports. I mean.

Steve McCowenGuest04:03

I mean it was. I was like Paris. I want you to see this, to let you know I’m not kidding, I’m not making this up, I’m not trying to pull one over on you. Here it is. Here’s the lab report One in 20 quintillion 80 zeros. He’s like I don’t believe that.

Chris SchoonoverGuest04:23

Her menstrual cycle was hard.

Steve McCowenGuest04:24

He told us so you know, and at that point.

Chris SchoonoverGuest04:28

But what we had Am I right, steve? That’s what he tells us? Her menstrual cycle was hard.

David LyonsHost04:31

It could have been on any wall and that DNA is just a fad.

Steve McCowenGuest04:37

But I think what was most important is, during that second search warrant we got so much more that we did it in the first we we, when we went back and we were looking a lot more in depth, we found blood. We actually found blood that we could see.

David LyonsHost04:55

Something not painted over, no, so what happened?

Steve McCowenGuest04:58

So he tried to clean.

Chris SchoonoverGuest04:59

He cleaned with bleach in a lot of areas and he painted a lot of areas. But as what many of us do, we’re so exhausted trying to cover up the crime, we forget the minute details. And this was the most magnificent finding was at in a hallway, at his bedroom, where your door opens and closes, where the hinges are On the on the back jam of the door.

Steve McCowenGuest05:28

Yes, so what had happened is he had closed the door, cleaned the door, but at the but at the time that Mer, that that Goldie was assaulted and killed, the door was open. So on that back jam there was blood droplets, all the way up, all the way up the entire thing.

05:47

The door was completely clean on the inside. Now we did after we got it back and we looked at it, you know, in a little bit better light we could find places on the door that he had missed on the flat side of the door, but on that backside jam door where the hinges are obvious blood droplets.

David LyonsHost06:02

We count on them, being so stupid sometimes.

Steve McCowenGuest06:05

And.

David LyonsHost06:05

I mean, that’s what it’s all about. Of all we said, it’s not so much that detectives are smart. We wait for that bulb to flicker over their head and jump on them in the dark.

Chris SchoonoverGuest06:14

Everybody makes a mistake, right, that’s it, including detectives, yeah, amen. We are, we are human.

Steve McCowenGuest06:19

Yep, yep, and for and for us. We really didn’t know where the crime happened, right, we? We thought that she was cut up in there, you know, dismembered in there, because of the blue saw that we saw on the wall. But with what we found back in this little hallway nook that led to a couple rooms, there was obvious blood that had came up at a pretty high. It wasn’t spray, and we had Tim Russell who does blood spatter with our FSU, look at it and he was like, yeah, that’s probably coming from from a lower distance, up onto the, onto the back of the door. So that was what we believed where she was assaulted initially and then probably our theory is we can’t prove it Probably taken to the living room Tarp, put down dismembered, because obviously you’re not bleeding at that point you can contain within the tarp, and then the tarp taken out in her along with the carpeting.

07:18

I mean that’s sort of our theory, Max series, right, so we, but we felt like he had. He had assaulted her back near the bedroom in this little nook area that led to a couple bedrooms that are real confined space.

David LyonsHost07:30

That’s where you had, I guess, the spatter.

Steve McCowenGuest07:32

That’s where we had the most, yeah, yeah, the most amount of blood Right.

Chris SchoonoverGuest07:35

And so now we’re adding all kinds of liaison, right, so we’re not doing this alone and we go back to Zach. Steve and I do go back to Zach and explain to him hey, we found evidence that Paris has murdered your mom, that she is dead at this point, that that’s why she didn’t come back and get closed. He literally breaks down. I remember this.

Steve McCowenGuest08:05

Hey, Carl, I like a baby.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:07

He did. He did and it does affect detectives. I’m not going to lie to you because we consider him a suspect right, and I’m getting goosebumps just talking about this. But he is a suspect and I don’t feel bad about it because later on I would have to pay the price when I’m testifying and Steve is testifying. Steve, you need to see his, his reaction. It’s just part of the job and we have to live through it. His sister I remember telling his sister that Zach had nothing to do with it. She was relieved. It was a whole different kind of response. Yeah, sure.

Steve McCowenGuest08:50

Yeah, sure, I mean she. She was just overwhelmed. I didn’t have anything to do with it and she was, you know, in the beginning she was sort of she didn’t know.

Chris SchoonoverGuest08:58

Anti -Zach. She was anti-Zach.

Steve McCowenGuest09:00

Yeah, if you know, she thought that he may have had something to do with it and for, in her mind, to feel that that he didn’t have anything to do, it sort of uplifted her.

David LyonsHost09:10

In her defense. You just don’t know, Right, I mean she’s thinking the same thing, 100% sure. I think she’s looking at the risk factors, his lifestyle, all those things. What a horrible place for a family member to be in, I mean. So God bless her.

Chris SchoonoverGuest09:25

Yeah, and one thing she always kept in contact with us, always, it was probably once to every 10 days. She would call when are we at? What are we doing? Can you tell me anything? I know I don’t want to violate the integrity of the case. She was always on top of it. She really was, she was just an unusual for a family member.

Steve McCowenGuest09:44

She was a good sister, that’s for sure. She kept us, she kept us and you all responded.

Chris SchoonoverGuest09:49

Absolutely, of course, yeah, absolutely.

David LyonsHost09:51

Because that’s a big complaint.

Chris SchoonoverGuest09:52

I would have to call the commander at the time. If she called you, I was very afraid I’d lose my job.

David LyonsHost09:56

I’d be terrified. I scared myself most days.

Wendy LyonsHost10:01

Yes, you intimidate me sir.

David LyonsHost10:03

Exactly. But yeah, I mean, that’s the right thing to do, right, right. And again, in these victims’ families, one of the things that people miss is that contact thing and how important that is. So, zach, that was pretty moving, I guess, right, sure. Because, I guess he responded as a guy that lost his mom.

Wendy LyonsHost10:22

Yeah, Well into a very horrific manner. There we go.

Chris SchoonoverGuest10:27

Yeah, I have a little sympathy for him. I think Steve does too. I mean, the guy has been dealt a bad card. There we go Right. His mom, he and his mom did drugs together.

Steve McCowenGuest10:39

Well, and I think, in looking at the big picture, he probably didn’t like us in the beginning, right sure, because we were pointing a finger at him. You know what I mean.

Chris SchoonoverGuest10:50

And especially Frantz. Yeah, if you’re listening, frantz.

Steve McCowenGuest10:53

Yeah, those short fingers that Frantz was pointing at him at, but I mean for us to be able to go back and tell him hey, we don’t think you did it, but this is why we had to sort of do it the way that we did it. I think he understood that and he respected that and that made us feel good.

David LyonsHost11:11

Well, he’s walking a lifestyle, very difficult, challenges that are an opposition of what law enforcement is Right.

Wendy LyonsHost11:18

Have you all spoken with him since this time? I mean, we’ve got nine years, that’s past. Did he ever get out of his jail? Sentence?

Chris SchoonoverGuest11:24

He has, he’s moved on. I think he and Samantha are still, I think, together. I don’t think they’ve ever married.

Steve McCowenGuest11:30

I don’t know. I do not know.

Chris SchoonoverGuest11:33

Yeah, but there’s another thing to this. So you can’t just take this to trial, right, you can’t. You have to know the cause of death For sure. You don’t have to have the motive. In the state of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, you don’t have to have proof of motive, but you do have to have at least what they think is a cause of death. So being in homicide for a long time, a mechanism of death Right. Yeah, steve and I, and even Dave, have heard about the forensic pathology farm, anthropology farm.

Steve McCowenGuest12:08

It’s the body farming at the University of Tennessee Right. That was started by Dr Bass and we referenced Dr Craig earlier. I think she did some, you know, work down there as well and in our time and work in my time at the corner job was working with Dr Craig. She had introduced the body farm to us on a couple of other cases and the work that they do down there is just absolutely phenomenal, the things that they come up with and the way that they come up with it. So we knew that we had, we had we had an arm, we had a torso and we wanted to figure out what happened. And so we made arrangements with the corner’s office and they transported those parts down to the University of Tennessee, to the body farm for us and went down there and talked to I think I think the, if I remember the, the medical examiner or the forensic anthropologist that helped us out. Her name was Donnie Steadman.

Chris SchoonoverGuest13:03

It is and I don’t.

Steve McCowenGuest13:05

it just came to me, but she yeah, we, we gave them the, the, the body parts, and we were like, so what happens here? And basically they put them in big, huge crock pots. Um, slow cook, they, they, they boil, they basically cook all the flesh. I mean, I know this is a, this is a bit gruesome, but they take, they deflesh all the bones and what’s important about that is they don’t use any sharp instruments because they don’t want it to put any markings on the bones that weren’t there. So they use like plastic or soft instruments to remove all the flesh, all the cartilage and everything off the bones, because they’re not interested in the flesh, they’re interested in the bones.

Chris SchoonoverGuest13:50

Right. So if there’s a sharp instrument mark on the bones, what does that mean?

Steve McCowenGuest13:56

Then that means that something was introduced into the body.

Wendy LyonsHost13:59

It could be a stabbing yeah, that was.

Steve McCowenGuest14:01

That’s not natural. But what we were interested in was trying to figure out how was she dismembered. And what was just so incredibly interesting is they were able to look at the bone, at her, her bones and just by the, the action of the blade and the length between the blades and things like that, they were able to determine that she was actually cut up with a reciprocating saw backwards and forwards motion, not circular. And at the time of the cut the cut went directly through nonstop. So it was Dr Steadman’s opinion that whoever used this tool was familiar with it, because they it never jammed, it never stopped, it went directly through. And if we think about Paris, he’s a handyman right.

David LyonsHost14:55

Right.

Steve McCowenGuest14:55

So he knows how to use tools, so he goes directly through. So that was really really neat. They they were able to determine that it was reciprocating saw.

Chris SchoonoverGuest15:07

We spent two days Back and forth motion and, look, they showed us the bones. It was great. They so, they magnified their technology. They magnified so we didn’t have to get right on the bone. So I don’t want your listeners to think that five heads were on this one bone. It was on a projector.

Steve McCowenGuest15:23

We could see where, like they would use an instrument to point out, what they could see was the pattern of the saw they explained it perfectly and they actually can go into these companies and know that, like, for instance, a DeWalt reciprocating saw makes so many passes. The teeth of the reciprocating saw and the length of it in so many seconds to be able to determine what kind of blade that was used.

Chris SchoonoverGuest15:51

It’s incredible. It’s incredible.

Wendy LyonsHost15:53

It was amazing for them to educate us Did he by chance say that a reciprocating saw was missing in his stolen.

Chris SchoonoverGuest16:01

Well we said what we did was we didn’t have another search warrant, so we did search everything around his house and in the back yard that he had in his van.

16:12

He had tons of tools in his van. So that brings us back to the landlord of Paris, charles. Remember, at their original point of this interview we started talking about, when Steve noticed there was no carpet. It was down to the sub flooring. If you’re a detective and you want to be consistent and you’re not going to let things go when we used to call Davey a bulldog, if you’re not going to let that go, you’re just going to shake your head. That’s what we did. I will be proud to say this.

16:45

I followed Davey’s lead. We called the landlord and said okay, when we searched originally on this date for Paris’s apartment, did he actually contact you and ask you for a reduction in rent? We didn’t tell him what he was doing. Did he ask you for a reduction in rent and did he ask you for any repairs? He said when I first rented to him he was going to replace the floor, but he never did. That was two years prior to him running.

17:18

Then, all of a sudden, we said well, when we went in on the second search warrant we went on February, whatever the second search warrant was he had piles of hardwood in packaging. He said, oh yeah, he was going to replace the floor when he first moved in. But he never did. I just thought he forgot about it. All of a sudden now, after Golden Mass, he has been murdered, what we assume dismembered in his apartment he’s replacing the floor. The landlord was subpoenaed to testify in this trial. I don’t know what to say about his testimony, but I will say the consistency of what Paris did and what the landlord said kind of didn’t match no Am.

Steve McCowenGuest18:13

I safe and saying that I would agree with that. Yeah, yeah, I think that there was definitely some issues with what the landlord was telling us as opposed to what we saw and what we discovered as far as the flooring and things of that nature.

David LyonsHost18:28

Do you think there was a motive in that?

Steve McCowenGuest18:30

No, I just.

David LyonsHost18:32

I think there was a bit of loyalty. Okay, got you.

Steve McCowenGuest18:35

Yeah, because he had been working for him. He had been doing not only was he working on his apartments but Paris, and also the landlord had told us that he was working on other properties that the landlord owed. So I think there was a bit of loyalty there, possibly, and maybe the fact that he just didn’t want to believe that he did it.

David LyonsHost18:53

That’s always real too.

Chris SchoonoverGuest18:55

Yeah, because I think Paris Charles worked for this landlord’s father for several years before the landlord had taken over.

David LyonsHost19:03

Yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest19:03

I think, so I think so. So I just you know there’s an inability there, right yeah, possible at least.

David LyonsHost19:11

I think at that point.

Steve McCowenGuest19:12

After that we had gotten everything our results back from the body farm. We were just kind of prepping for trial. Everything went quickly, as opposed to most normal murder cases, I mean we were.

Chris SchoonoverGuest19:25

That was the quickest I’ve ever been to trial in years on a homicide.

Steve McCowenGuest19:29

No, we went to trial, we I don’t know why or what happened. I think it charged him in February and we went to trial that that September.

David LyonsHost19:37

So Lord, that’s quick.

Steve McCowenGuest19:39

Yeah, and it was you know. We got our subpoenas and we started preparing for trial, getting everything together. Lou Anna and Rewa were the prosecutors in the case and did an excellent job Outstanding.

Wendy LyonsHost19:54

What kind of sentence did he get?

Steve McCowenGuest19:57

He got found guilty and he wound up getting 35 years for the murder and I think he got 12 months for the abuse of a corpse, but it was it ran consecutive, so it was likely still denying it the whole time during trial 100% and I remember, if you’ll remember, when we interviewed Paris he was, and if you watch the interviews, he had a bald head with a little bit of a beard and by the time we went to trial he looked like Santa Claus, I mean he came in on a walk or a thing.

20:28

He had a huge beard going, yeah, but he’d always told us he was a biker too. That went along with his all of his stories and things that nature. But you really you really need to watch his interview to get a feel for.

David LyonsHost20:42

We’ll try to take a peek at that and probably plug that in. It could have already happened by the time we’re talking about this is that we’ll look at that and put some snippets in to see who he was. So what spoke to you all in this? Was there anything we talked in the beginning about? What stood out? Now hot wash it like you’re done with it? Did it leave any big impressions on you moving forward, on how you would handle the cases differently, or anything really learned in this?

Steve McCowenGuest21:17

For me it was to not really take anything for granted, especially missing person reports, because when we talked about this earlier, they’re so easy to look over but they’re so important because those are the big ones. I mean, in my time up there we experienced so many missing persons for reports that actually turned into murders the Sharon Cave missing persons that turned into murder, the Alice Johnson missing persons that turned into murder, the Goldie Massey missing persons. Those are only three examples of missing person reports that got reported, but of the probably 3,000 missing person reports that were actually filed in my time up there, you can’t overlook anything. You have to be so detail oriented.

David LyonsHost22:00

That’s it.

Steve McCowenGuest22:01

That’s the thing that I really focused on and I felt, like you know, there were days that I would overlook that stuff and because of this case, I’m like that’s a good lesson learned Not to overlook things, not to take things for granted, and just because they’re missing doesn’t mean they don’t want to be found.

David LyonsHost22:24

There’s a lot of family, steve, that when I hear you say that, I’ll take comfort, knowing that detectives believe that.

Steve McCowenGuest22:30

Absolutely. I think there’s a lot of solace taken in that that we knew up there that it could lead to major problems if you didn’t, and we wanted to correct those problems from the forefront Fantastic.

Chris SchoonoverGuest22:46

I would add on to that that don’t wait what you see on TV where you have to wait 24 or 48 hours to report your loved one missing, that’s a misnomer, I think. If you are adamant that something is unusual about the pattern of your loved one, report it. At least report it, and the detective will have that. If it’s a good detective, we’ll have that gut feeling. Yeah, we probably should jump on this right away. Even though Goldie was reported several weeks after she was missing, the detectives didn’t wait to find out something was unusual.

David LyonsHost23:30

I can see the delay, but from what I gathered, even her son Zach, when he reported it he provided the risk factors immediately. Am I correct in that he did which? So he was pretty clear in that and I know at some point you look at that maybe suspiciously because we could say he could overload information.

Chris SchoonoverGuest23:48

With the drug information. He didn’t want to come forth with that right it’s a personal thing.

David LyonsHost23:53

But he still provided some of those things about her involvement and some of the allegations are fralled and check-righted and things like that Sure.

Steve McCowenGuest23:59

And I think even Zach was behind the ball, though you know in reporting, because you know he was getting information from Paris that you know that wasn’t true. So I think that even he was. He probably had learned it prior but didn’t really think about it until he was like this isn’t adding up Right. I need to call yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:19

Right.

Steve McCowenGuest24:20

And this is what this guy told me.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:21

Right.

Steve McCowenGuest24:22

And this doesn’t make sense.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:23

Yeah, so the longer you delay, the more difficult it gets for detectives.

David LyonsHost24:27

And provide lots of information. We’ve talked about that in this podcast before about how you have to really. You have to be very exposed. You have to tell about those intimate things that you can’t wait till something goes wrong and say, oh yeah, they did deal mid-level with drug dealing. That I know that’s embarrassing, but you have to let people know that off the bat because that’s where the risk factors are going to come from 100%, that’s where.

Chris SchoonoverGuest24:52

I’m going to get even deeper. If, even if there was a family dynamic where and I don’t know if you’re comfortable putting this out there, but if there was in central, in central relationships, but you still did have nothing to do with this, don’t hesitate, you may have to admit it. Don’t hesitate if you want the true results.

David LyonsHost25:17

Yeah, because that’s going to lead. There’s the rabbit hole when you stumble on that, mckaylee Mahon. That’s it.

Chris SchoonoverGuest25:25

Don’t do it.

David LyonsHost25:25

Yeah, good point. And in in yeah, they’re good point because it creates a complete rabbit hole that everybody’s going to shift and go down. That was horrible, horrible.

Chris SchoonoverGuest25:36

Weeks and weeks of investigation, when they could have gone elsewhere.

David LyonsHost25:40

Yeah, true, very true, very true.

Steve McCowenGuest25:43

Anything else I would say. Lastly, what spoke to me, and I think what really speaks to me with a lot of the murders that we work, or just the people and the families that we worked with. I mean that I’ve said for a long time awards don’t mean anything. Christmas cards, do you know? But to get that Christmas card for my family man, that means everything. Yeah.

Chris SchoonoverGuest26:04

I still go to Walmart. Steve, I see you getting emotional. You’re right. You’re right. I still go to Walmart with a homicide that happened here. I still go to Walmart and her aunt and I won’t speak about the victim. Her aunt still hugs me at the photographs section. It’s like that’s a million dollars to me. Somewhere in the 20 years of experience.

David LyonsHost26:26

It’s, I think, somewhere in the attic I’ve got a box that has cards and stuff like that. And I’ve said the same thing, that nothing speaks to you more than those people and the idea that you didn’t make it all right, but you provided answers right.

26:41

And you, you, you help them start to metabolize the worst thing. You started out when we started the podcast. It’s the worst thing they’re going to deal with. Sure, that’s what this whole thing is about. It’s about those people. It’s anything other than that doesn’t really matter at that point. Right, thank you all very much. Do you want to take a step?

Wendy LyonsHost27:00

Yeah, thank you guys so much. This, this case was really interesting with, with a lot of unexpected twists and turns, and thank you all so much for coming out. Steve, I’m so glad you’ve come. I hope you have more cases to bring to the table.

Steve McCowenGuest27:16

I appreciate the opportunity I really enjoyed myself. Thanks a lot for having me.

Wendy LyonsHost27:21

And Chris, thank you so much for coming again.

Chris SchoonoverGuest27:24

I do it anytime you ask.

Wendy LyonsHost27:25

Thank you and to Goldie’s family we we send our our respects for their loss and, and you know, like, like the gentleman said, if you have a missing person, please don’t hesitate, Give those details. Every little bit helps as quick as you can get it out there. So thank you, gentlemen, and thank you to our listeners.

David LyonsHost27:50

Thanks, thanks guys.

Chris SchoonoverGuest27:51

Thank you for having us.

David LyonsHost27:57

The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims, so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons. The Murder Police Podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android Podcast platform, as well as at murderpolicepodcastcom, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars in a written review. On Apple Podcast or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends Lock it down.

28:57

Judy.

00:01 / 29:00